A silly little blog for me to drop the excrement of my mind.
treating them like second class citizens
Published on February 18, 2005 By BlueDev In Misc
2:30 am. She has been sitting in the triage area of Labor and Delivery for 2 hours now. She doesn't know it yet, but she is going to have a C-Section. It was deemed an urgent C-Section (but not EMErgent, an important distinction). She also doesn't know she is going to be waiting another hour and a half until she finally finds out, literally as she is on her way to the operating room.

Why doesn't she know? And why must her urgent operation wait until 4 am?

Simple: she speaks Spanish.

But most aggravating of all is the fact that I speak Spanish as well. And not just "I took Spanish in High School, so I speak Spanish". No, I am fluent. I speak well enough to occasionally fool native Spanish speakers into thinking that Spanish is my native language. I lived in Central America for 2 years, studied Spanish grammar and literature in college, and continue to keep it up. Sure, there are words I don't know now and then, but I have never come across a term I couldn't explain perfectly well, even if I didn't have the exact word.

But apparently that level of fluency isn't enough for Duke. Never mind the fact that my Spanish is better than some of the "professional interpreters" I have listened to here. Never mind the fact that I have worked as an interpreter and Spanish tutor for college courses in the past. And never mind the fact that my Spanish coupled with my medical knowledge makes me that much more effective when dealing with Spanish speaking patients.

See, if I go in and interpret for a patient Duke can't bill for that service.

I can't help but see this as an example of the bottom line taking precedence over patient care. Of course, this isn't the reason they tell me I can't interpret. They tell me it is because I haven't gone through their ridiculous and idiotic certification process. But that is only necessary to interpret hospital and clinic wide. To interpret for my patients (as a medical student meaning whatever patients are on the service I am currently assigned to) I was told I just needed to have a conversation with the lady in charge of International Patient Relations so she can assess my Spanish.

But if it really was just because they wanted to make sure I spoke good Spanish, why make the process so difficult? Money talks, don't it.

I was told this by another student who received such authorization. According to him he simply called her, spoke with her over the phone for a few minutes in Spanish and BAM, he had is interpreter number. So I thought I would make things even easier. I went to her office to find her. Of course she wasn't there, so I left my name and pager number. I never heard back.

I called her, at which time she admits to having it but was apparently too busy to page me. So she says she will email me some times I can stop by and speak with her. I guess I can't do this over the phone? Hmm, I wonder why. I have a guess.

My fellow classmate's last name is distinctly Hispanic in origin. And as anyone who knows my real name can attest, well, names just don't get much more Anglo. And so, because of my name (and lack of any accent when I speak English) I am discriminated against. Not only does she not return my page (after seeing my Anglo name), she refuses to talk to me over the phone, as she has with others (even after I called her on that and gave her the names of those I knew she had spoken with).

She never emailed me either.

Now, let's think this through. If I can interpret my patients don't need to wait. As the medical student (aka monkey) I am pretty much always there, at the beck and call of my attending and residents. So in the above example, as I sat in triage all night, this woman could have had her baby at least 2 hours earlier. That is 2 fewer hours of high level nursing care, 2 less hours of monitoring, and 2 fewer hours of meds to keep her comfortable while we twiddle our thumbs waiting for the interpreter to show up.

Then you have interpreters who, though they speak great Spanish, have no clue what they are saying most of the time. Oh, and they don't tell the patient everything the doctor says at times, or they alter it. They claim it is because they are conscious of cultural norms and such. I say bull. It is because they are lazy and have too many patients to see. While I could sit in there with a patient, carefully explain everything, and offer them plenty of time to ask questions, the interpreters are continuously looking at their watches, the list of patients they still need to go see and their pager to see where to go next. Maybe it is just me, but that doesn't seem to make for the most comfortable and open environment.

So I say screw 'em. When I was on Pediatrics I just did it. I didn't care. Sometimes the nurse had called an interpreter already, so I quietly stood in the corner, listening, then corrected the errors they had made after they left the room. But most of the time my residents, attending and I just did the job. And you know what?

The patients received better, more timely care, and I was a heck of a lot more warm and personable than any interpreter. I actually knew my patients, their names, their medical history, what they did/didn't like, and saw them as people, not a job to be done. So when one of my patients told International Patient Services that she never wanted to see their interpreter again, and that she just wanted to talk to me I knew we were doing the right thing.

Some will argue the Spanish speaking population needs to integrate. And you know what? I agree. But it ain't going to happen overnight. And so, in the meantime, I will continue to talk to my patients, sans idiotic interpreter, and I will also continue to fight to become official. The discrimination card is going to be played in the next phone call. Let's see if that makes a difference.

Comments (Page 1)
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on Feb 18, 2005
breathe dev...One day when you are a great doctor and have your own practice you can make the rules.... till then, yer gonna have to suck it up {you know this} do things that make no sense , and carry on.
on Feb 18, 2005

I have been teaching English to more and more native Spanish speakers lately, and I have been surprised at how many of the cognates (or close-cognates) between English and Spanish can't be understood by my students.  I mean: estudiar sounds like study, doesn't it?

We'll just have to keep working...

I am surprised that there is a policy whereby a doctor needs a translator to give service to a non-native English speaker.  Does it have anything to do with medical liability coverage?

-I translate a lot at my job between English and Russian, but I do call professional translators if there is something really important to say.

on Feb 18, 2005
Yep, I agree Dev, until such time you gotta do what you gotta do. But it still sucks and those people's method is soooo redundant! Makes you wanna kick ass and ask questions later - just helping you to vent.

Especially in your setting, Acadamae always have it's head up in it's rear (to put it delicately), therefore they're always lost.
on Feb 18, 2005

I agree with mod....you gots ta suck it up on this one...but I also agree it sucks.

 

on Feb 18, 2005
I wonder if a call to the woman's insurance company alerting them to the fact that they are paying through the nose for two hours worth of unnecessary services wouldn't speed up your approval process. I find insurers don't like to pay, and hospitals don't like to lose money--they are going to find the fast compromise that will make both relatively happy--which would be to allow you to translate!

Good Luck, Blue Dev--I definitely don't think that you should roll over and die on this one. Fighting the good fight is what it's all about (and speaking of which...I'm eagerly waiting for Sunday's game--it should be a good one!)
on Feb 18, 2005
Hmmm, sadly this article became more about me and less about the problem.

Frankly, I am not going to suck it up. I am going to do whatever I need to in order to ensure my patients receive the best care possible. If that means I go in and talk to them without an interpreter I am going to do it. I am going to continue to try to get "official" status, but until that point I am also going to take care of my patients. And you cannot take care of your patients well when you have to round at 5 in the morning if you are going to wait to do it with an interpreter. For official things (such as singing consent forms), sure I will wait. But otherwise I will continue to do what is best for my patients and not Duke's bottom line.

Shades: Sadly, most of the Spanish speaking patients are either uninsured or on Medicaid, and so there is little recourse there. But as much as I hate them, I think next time I call I just may pull out the name of the ACLU to see if they would be interested in this case of discrimination. (And I will admit to being a little wary about Sunday!)
on Feb 18, 2005
Sadly, most of the Spanish speaking patients are either uninsured or on Medicaid


I had feared as much--then put a call into Andrea Davis in Richard Burr's Winston-Salem office. It's a waste of medicare funds and definitely falls under her duties as Chief Constituent Advocate. Or talk to any one of the following constituent service representatives in Senator Dole's Raleigh office: Esther Clark, Marilyn Darnell,Susan Dean, Samantha Edwards, Debbie King, Alice McCall, or Paula Noble. You should be able to find the numbers on their websites: www.senate.gov/~burr and www.senate.gov/~dole.


Good luck and let me know how it goes!
on Feb 18, 2005
Shades, for a loopy, looney liberal (you know I am kidding when I say that, right?), you sure are cool.

I will definately take some action.
on Feb 18, 2005
you sure are cool


you know, I'd do anything to screw Duke--(only kidding!)

I don't have your email any more--but if you drop me a line I can give you some more information (I just don't want to post phone numbers and stuff here). Mine is shadesofgrey7 at yahoo dot co dot uk
on Feb 18, 2005
Sent.
on Feb 18, 2005
Sent.


I had found your address and sent some stuff off to you.
on Feb 18, 2005
Blue--

I just sent you another email with some more ideas--let me know what you think.

I'm signing off for the weekend, but will check come monday.

Good luck (just not on Sunday!)
on Feb 18, 2005
I got them Shades. I really appreciate it and I will keep you informed.
on Feb 18, 2005
BlueDev, I hear you. All I can say is don't lose that attitude the further you get into your field. Even if you have to smash this blog in your face, keep up those thoughts. That's the only way to change the system instead of becoming a part of it.

(Wow, I haven't lost all my idealism to cynicism yet....)

And I agree with you: don't suck it up. OTOH don't get fired, though, 'cause we need people like you.

-A.
on Feb 18, 2005
BlueDev, one thing I learned along the way is that there will be times that you have to let the laws of cause and effect run their course. As you know, in patient care, there are the "5 rights". You give the indicated med according to the "5 rights" and nothing you can do will change the laws of cause and effect. All you can do is be ready to reassess and react to the outcome. Win, lose or draw, you did it right.

Well, sometimes the laws of cause and effect for proper patient care say that you get chewed out by those whose job it is to chew people out. Just as you don't regret giving the right med, even if the outcome wasn't what you wanted, never regret giving proper patient care, just because the outcome wasn't what you planned. ;~D
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