A silly little blog for me to drop the excrement of my mind.
treating them like second class citizens
Published on February 18, 2005 By BlueDev In Misc
2:30 am. She has been sitting in the triage area of Labor and Delivery for 2 hours now. She doesn't know it yet, but she is going to have a C-Section. It was deemed an urgent C-Section (but not EMErgent, an important distinction). She also doesn't know she is going to be waiting another hour and a half until she finally finds out, literally as she is on her way to the operating room.

Why doesn't she know? And why must her urgent operation wait until 4 am?

Simple: she speaks Spanish.

But most aggravating of all is the fact that I speak Spanish as well. And not just "I took Spanish in High School, so I speak Spanish". No, I am fluent. I speak well enough to occasionally fool native Spanish speakers into thinking that Spanish is my native language. I lived in Central America for 2 years, studied Spanish grammar and literature in college, and continue to keep it up. Sure, there are words I don't know now and then, but I have never come across a term I couldn't explain perfectly well, even if I didn't have the exact word.

But apparently that level of fluency isn't enough for Duke. Never mind the fact that my Spanish is better than some of the "professional interpreters" I have listened to here. Never mind the fact that I have worked as an interpreter and Spanish tutor for college courses in the past. And never mind the fact that my Spanish coupled with my medical knowledge makes me that much more effective when dealing with Spanish speaking patients.

See, if I go in and interpret for a patient Duke can't bill for that service.

I can't help but see this as an example of the bottom line taking precedence over patient care. Of course, this isn't the reason they tell me I can't interpret. They tell me it is because I haven't gone through their ridiculous and idiotic certification process. But that is only necessary to interpret hospital and clinic wide. To interpret for my patients (as a medical student meaning whatever patients are on the service I am currently assigned to) I was told I just needed to have a conversation with the lady in charge of International Patient Relations so she can assess my Spanish.

But if it really was just because they wanted to make sure I spoke good Spanish, why make the process so difficult? Money talks, don't it.

I was told this by another student who received such authorization. According to him he simply called her, spoke with her over the phone for a few minutes in Spanish and BAM, he had is interpreter number. So I thought I would make things even easier. I went to her office to find her. Of course she wasn't there, so I left my name and pager number. I never heard back.

I called her, at which time she admits to having it but was apparently too busy to page me. So she says she will email me some times I can stop by and speak with her. I guess I can't do this over the phone? Hmm, I wonder why. I have a guess.

My fellow classmate's last name is distinctly Hispanic in origin. And as anyone who knows my real name can attest, well, names just don't get much more Anglo. And so, because of my name (and lack of any accent when I speak English) I am discriminated against. Not only does she not return my page (after seeing my Anglo name), she refuses to talk to me over the phone, as she has with others (even after I called her on that and gave her the names of those I knew she had spoken with).

She never emailed me either.

Now, let's think this through. If I can interpret my patients don't need to wait. As the medical student (aka monkey) I am pretty much always there, at the beck and call of my attending and residents. So in the above example, as I sat in triage all night, this woman could have had her baby at least 2 hours earlier. That is 2 fewer hours of high level nursing care, 2 less hours of monitoring, and 2 fewer hours of meds to keep her comfortable while we twiddle our thumbs waiting for the interpreter to show up.

Then you have interpreters who, though they speak great Spanish, have no clue what they are saying most of the time. Oh, and they don't tell the patient everything the doctor says at times, or they alter it. They claim it is because they are conscious of cultural norms and such. I say bull. It is because they are lazy and have too many patients to see. While I could sit in there with a patient, carefully explain everything, and offer them plenty of time to ask questions, the interpreters are continuously looking at their watches, the list of patients they still need to go see and their pager to see where to go next. Maybe it is just me, but that doesn't seem to make for the most comfortable and open environment.

So I say screw 'em. When I was on Pediatrics I just did it. I didn't care. Sometimes the nurse had called an interpreter already, so I quietly stood in the corner, listening, then corrected the errors they had made after they left the room. But most of the time my residents, attending and I just did the job. And you know what?

The patients received better, more timely care, and I was a heck of a lot more warm and personable than any interpreter. I actually knew my patients, their names, their medical history, what they did/didn't like, and saw them as people, not a job to be done. So when one of my patients told International Patient Services that she never wanted to see their interpreter again, and that she just wanted to talk to me I knew we were doing the right thing.

Some will argue the Spanish speaking population needs to integrate. And you know what? I agree. But it ain't going to happen overnight. And so, in the meantime, I will continue to talk to my patients, sans idiotic interpreter, and I will also continue to fight to become official. The discrimination card is going to be played in the next phone call. Let's see if that makes a difference.

Comments (Page 2)
2 Pages1 2 
on Feb 18, 2005
OTOH don't get fired, though, 'cause we need people like you.


A: I really appreciate your comments. I will do all I can to keep this same attitude. Glad to know your idealism is still intact (at least somewhat!)

never regret giving proper patient care, just because the outcome wasn't what you planned


That is the way I see it too.

I am doing my best to play by their rules. When the interpreter (finally) shows up I stand quietly in the corner and let them do their job. I don't try to get them out of the loop, I don't ignore their authority to interpret (though I do listen carefully to what they say so I can correct any errors they make after they leave). And if we need a consent signed I have no problem calling them.

But the International Patient Relations office would have me ignore my patients unless there is an interpreter present. And that I refuse to do. I will continue to do what I can to get my official interpreter number, but my patients come first. Thanks for the comments.
on Feb 18, 2005
I am surprised that there is a policy whereby a doctor needs a translator to give service to a non-native English speaker. Does it have anything to do with medical liability coverage?


I am sure that is the case. And I can see how that is important. What I think they fail to realize is that often the interpreters butcher the translation. They should only say what the doctor says, but too often they take it upon themselves to "dumb down" what the doctor is saying because they think it is necessary. And their lack of medical knowledge really makes this ineffectual and sometimes even plaing wrong. For instance, I had one patient who was told by the interpreter that her baby DID NOT have Down's Syndrome (because he was trying to spare the mother's feelings), even when she spoke enough English to realize the doctor had said the baby did have Down's Syndrome. Big, big mistake.
on Feb 18, 2005
>>They tell me it is because I haven't gone through their ridiculous and idiotic certification process.

Now there's a common obstical they like to throw in people's way. Don't matter if you have years of experience, don't mean anything unless you got a piece of paper with a stamp of approval to show for it.

Like Jamie, I think it might be the hospital's way of covering their own asses the best they can. Avoiding possible medical liability scenarios that might come up. (Seem to have posted the same time as your last reply. Point taken.)
on Feb 18, 2005
This is something I've noticed increasingly lately as well. What happened to the days where skills weren't so compartmentalised. Too much emphasis is being placed on certification of obvious skills and not enough on real patient care. If it weren't so sad, it would be almost laughable.

Cheers,

Maso
on Feb 19, 2005
Hey, you're on the right track. Carry on!
on Feb 19, 2005
Wow...I am so impressed with you. I understand that there must be soooo much pressure for you to do things "by the book"...but the fact that you are willing to stand up and do the right thing for your patients is very admirable.
on Feb 19, 2005
Like Jamie, I think it might be the hospital's way of covering their own asses the best they can. Avoiding possible medical liability scenarios that might come up.


I have had lots of random thoughts on this subject since writing the article originally, so I am just sort of spouting them off.

Another facet of avoiding lawsuits that I think they are missing out on is a simple one. There have been many studies done to look at what factors lead people to sue or not sue. And there are a couple common threads in it all.

1) Write it down: The more accurate the documentation not only is your case stronger if the suit happens, things are less likely to ever make it that far. Document, document, document. But since the interpreters don't do any documentation, we are left with med students and residents writing notes and documenting conversations that they didn't understand 100% (due to many of the inaccuracies I have already mentioned). So, when the interpreters are the only choice, great. But when there is someone on the treatment team who is fluent, well, my note will always be more accurate and more complete than any note written after using an interpreter.

2) Be nice: The interpreters just aren't very nice. A lot of that comes from the pressure to be running all over the place and translating. I don't blame just them, there are simply not enough interpreters to meet the demand. Again, a cost issue. They don't want to hire enough people to get to every patient immediately because there would, inevitably, be times where they had too many. Nevertheless, using someone on the team who speaks Spanish will almost always lead to more kind, positive interactions.

3) Take time: When mistakes are made it has been documented that patients are much more likely to sue if the doctor doesn't take a fair amount of time to explain what happened and seem sincerely sorry. That just can't happen when you have the interpreter looking at his watch every 10 seconds and constantly asking "Are you done yet?". The tretment team can offer that time, since it is our job to be there.

And, if course, you really have the fact that the Hispanic population just isn't a very litigious culture. There was a terrible example that happened here a couple of years ago where many mistakes were made that led to the death of a little Hispanic girl. End story, the doctor was very apologetic, very kind, took the time to be with the family. The family didn't want to sue him, but were pressured into suing by their Anglo lawyer. Even then, the doctor was left out.

Oh well, keep fighting the good fight.

Maso, scatter, and Tex, thanks so much for your comments!
on Mar 05, 2005
Hi, California State Certified Medical Interpreter #500236 reporting to hyper-confident medical student. You have some solid reasoning in some parts of your argument to speak directly to your patients in Spanish. You and I have a similar background in the Spanish language. You are also dealing with a woman who has the power to say who will be her language cronies. You have to live up to her standards. I had to live up to the standards of the State of California's personell services. Corporate Personell Service administers the language certification tests. The"professional" interpreters you deal with just had to pull the wool over the eyes of the International Patients Coordinator. The standard is to interpret every word as close to word for word as is possible. Many times an MD or medical student will speak to what they believe to be the interpreters level of understanding and not assess the patients register of vocabulary. The interpreter is then left with the burden of informing the MD or student respectfully of the confusion their "big" words may cause or not so professionally translating the terms into the register the patient will understand. A standardized language test for Medical professionals would clear up this confusion and save on the bottom line for Duke. A Medical Professional could be a bi-lingual certified professional and free up time and resource to expedite patient care in routine medical attention.
on Mar 05, 2005
hyper-confident medical student


??

Hyper-confident because I know I am fluent in Spanish? Hyper-confident because I have worked for years as an interpreter in other medical facilities? Hyper-confident because I have an Hispanic foster child living with me?

All I want is to be given a chance to "live up to her standards". She doesn't even have the backbone to let me talk to her. I am trying to get the certification done, but am tired of the roadblocks set in my path by a bureaucracy that doesn't care about the patients, only the bottom line.

The standard is to interpret every word as close to word for word as is possible


That may be the standard, but it isn't the practice, at least not at our facility. I am tired of standing idly by while certified interpreters choose to alter and "dumb down" what the MD is saying. Do MDs often speak at a level that isn't easily understood? Yep, and shame on them. But if that does happen, the interpreter could (and should IMO) tell the doctor that was probably too technical, then let the MD dumb it down appropriately.

A standardized language test for Medical professionals would clear up this confusion and save on the bottom line for Duke. A Medical Professional could be a bi-lingual certified professional and free up time and resource to expedite patient care in routine medical attention.


Can't argue with that, and I agree whole-heartedly.

Thanks for your input.
on Mar 06, 2005
hyper-confident medical student


Is it wrong that that statement made me giggle like a schoolgirl? Come on. Why do people always have to assign a judgment instead of just commenting on topic? #500236 had a fairly interesting input after that first bit of idiocy. Grr. Gee, BlueDev, I just don't know how you'll ever be able to live up to that assessment. I guess I'll call you on it if I ever see you being "hyper-confident."

Still LMAO.

-A.
on Mar 27, 2005
To Blue Dev. I AM an interpreter in Houston TX at Ben Taub Trauma Hospital. I can appreciate some of what you are describing but from the opposite perspective. I get frustrated by staff who THINK they speak spanish and mutilate communication altogether as well. Simply because they feel they can get by. Don't get me wrong, I agree that someone like yourself who is culturally and linguistically fluent should be encouraged to participate in easing communication problems. We are after all, here for the patient, not just for the staff. I can then sympathize with your position.

What Floors ME is that Duke bills for their interpreter's! They can do that? I though it was illegal to do that because it would be otherwise "discriminating". Thus we offer it as a free service to all of our clients in all languages as a free service.

Please respond if you ever check this again. I lok forward to your perspective.
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